"Do you remember that bit in King Lear?"said the Savage at last:"'The gods are just,and of our pleasant vices make instruments to plague us;the dark and vicious place where thee he got cost him his eyes,'and Edmund answers-you remember,he's wounded,he's dying-'Thou hast spoken right;'tis true.The wheel is come full circle;I am here.'What about that,now?Doesn't there seem to be a God managing things,punishing,rewarding?"
"Well,does there?"questioned the Controller in his turn."You can indulge in any number of pleasant vices with a freemartin and run no risks of having your eyes put out by your son's mistress.'The wheel is come full circle;I am here.'But where would Edmund be nowadays?Sitting in a pneumatic chair,with his arm round a girl's waist,sucking away at his sex-hormone chewing-gum and looking at the feelies.The gods are just.No doubt.But their code of law is dictated,in the last resort,by the people who organize society;Providence takes its cue from men."
"Are you sure?"asked the Savage."Are you quite sure that the Edmund in that pneumatic chair hasn't been just as heavily punished as the Edmund who's wounded and bleeding to death?The gods are just.Haven't they used his pleasant vices as an instrument to degrade him?"
"Degrade him from what position?As a happy,hard-working,goods-consuming citizen he's perfect.Of course,if you choose some other standard than ours,then perhaps you might say he was degraded.But you've got to stick to one set of postulates.You can't play Electro-magnetic Golf according to the rules of Centrifugal Bumble-puppy."
"But value dwells not in particular will,"said the Savage."It holds his estimate and dignity as well wherein 'tis precious of itself as in the prizer."
"Come,come,"protested Mustapha Mond,"that's going rather far,isn't it?"
"If you allowed yourselves to think of God,you wouldn't allow yourselves to be degraded by pleasant vices.You'd have a reason for bearing things patiently,for doing things with courage.I've seen it with the Indians."
"I'm sure you have,"said Mustapha Mond."But then we aren't Indians.There isn't any need for a civilized man to bear anything that's seriously unpleasant.And as for doing things-Ford forbid that he should get the idea into his head.It would upset the whole social order if men started doing things on their own."
"What about self-denial,then?If you had a God,you'd have a reason for self-denial."
"But industrial civilization is only possible when there's no self-denial.Self-indulgence up to the very limits imposed by hygiene and economics.Otherwise the wheels stop turning."
"You'd have a reason for chastity!"said the Savage,blushing a little as he spoke the words.
"But chastity means passion,chastity means neurasthenia.And passion and neurasthenia mean instability.And instability means the end of civilization.You can't have a lasting civilization without plenty of pleasant vices."
"But God's the reason for everything noble and fine and heroic.If you had a God……"